Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Shhh! I was trying to lure them into a false sense of security.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Steven desJardins » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:50 pm

I just signed up to play in Episodes 5 and 6 at Origins, and I think I'm going to take the Ussuran Wrestler template. But first I want to make sure I understand the rules for wrestling.

1. The Player's Guide says "A wrestler, if he can get past an opponent's weapon, has a natural advantage against an untrained fighter." What's involved in getting past an opponent's weapon: is it just beating the opponent's defensive TN with a grapple check, or something more? I would have the Disarm knack, and grappling someone after I disarmed them ought to be pretty easy. But I'm wondering if I have to disarm them first, or there's some other not-insignificant penalty to trying to wrestle an armed opponent. Because it seems like it ought to be really hard to grapple someone trying to fend you off with a long pointy sword.

2. Breaking out of a grappling hold involves a contested roll of Brawn + Wrestling vs. Brawn + Wrestling. I understand how you combine traits and knacks, but not how you would combine a trait and a skill, since skills don't have numeric values.

3. Since Bear Hug is a basic knack for students of the Dobrynya school, I can boost it from 2 to 3 in character creation by spending only one HP, correct?

4. Overall, it seems like wrestling is great against a single opponent, not so great against multiple opponents. Is that a fair summary?
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:56 pm

Steven desJardins wrote:I just signed up to play in Episodes 5 and 6 at Origins, and I think I'm going to take the Ussuran Wrestler template. But first I want to make sure I understand the rules for wrestling.

Awesome, lets see if I can answer all this...

Steven desJardins wrote:The Player's Guide says "A wrestler, if he can get past an opponent's weapon, has a natural advantage against an untrained fighter." What's involved in getting past an opponent's weapon: is it just beating the opponent's defensive TN with a grapple check, or something more? I would have the Disarm knack, and grappling someone after I disarmed them ought to be pretty easy. But I'm wondering if I have to disarm them first, or there's some other not-insignificant penalty to trying to wrestle an armed opponent. Because it seems like it ought to be really hard to grapple someone trying to fend you off with a long pointy sword.

First the part you quoted is the fluff, so no need to hold that out as gospel.

Second, yup, to get past their guard all you have to do is hit their TN. That said, however, remember that many sword schools (and weapons in general) allow you to make an active Defense to stop your attack. SO, if you're coming after a swordsman who still has his/her weapon, they can use Parry (or Riposte, or a host of other defensive skills) to keep you from actually getting a hold of them.

So the answer to whether you have to disarm them first is a matter of how much you want them to be able to hurt you once you've gotten them in your grip. As for a penalty, nope there isn't one, just the realization that, depending on circumstances, they may be able to put significant holes in you with their pointy weapons.

As for the difficulty, remember that 7th Sea is very cinematic. So reality falls to the wayside for the "Rule of Cool"

Steven desJardins wrote:Breaking out of a grappling hold involves a contested roll of Brawn + Wrestling vs. Brawn + Wrestling. I understand how you combine traits and knacks, but not how you would combine a trait and a skill, since skills don't have numeric values.

Its far easier to figure out when you remember all the errors that managed to hide from the Proofreaders. ;)
Just change Wrestling to Grapple and voila.

Steven desJardins wrote:Since Bear Hug is a basic knack for students of the Dobrynya school, I can boost it from 2 to 3 in character creation by spending only one HP, correct?

Upon first glance I was inclined to agree with you, but for one thing. And for this I should really let Dave chime in. That said I think the comment about basic knack is so that you can add HP to increase it at Character Generation (because if it was an advanced knack you couldn't get it at all). But according to the PG (p. 124) all sword school knacks are treated as advanced knacks.

But again, let me say, I'm deferring to Dave on this, he knows way more about sword schools than I do.

Steven desJardins wrote:Overall, it seems like wrestling is great against a single opponent, not so great against multiple opponents. Is that a fair summary?

Yup I'd say that's a fair assessment.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby salamanca » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:01 pm

Bear Hug is an advanced knack in wrestling but takes up a knack slot in the school. ALL knacks that do this offer a small bonus at character generation. That bonus IS buying it up for 1 point per rank.

So you get it at rank 1 and should spend 2 HP and move it to rank 3.

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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:58 pm

salamanca wrote:Bear Hug is an advanced knack in wrestling but takes up a knack slot in the school. ALL knacks that do this offer a small bonus at character generation. That bonus IS buying it up for 1 point per rank.

So you get it at rank 1 and should spend 2 HP and move it to rank 3.

-Dave


So you were right Steven!
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Steven desJardins » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:13 am

Black Jack Rackham wrote:So the answer to whether you have to disarm them first is a matter of how much you want them to be able to hurt you once you've gotten them in your grip. As for a penalty, nope there isn't one, just the realization that, depending on circumstances, they may be able to put significant holes in you with their pointy weapons.


That doesn't seem quite right. The Player's Guide says "While grappled, your opponent can only attempt to break your hold, Head Butt you, or perform an Action which requires very little motion, such as pulling the trigger on a pistol." So it seems like it wouldn't matter whether a swordsman was disarmed or not once I have him grappled--he wouldn't be able to attack with his sword until he broke free. (And unless he's a lot stronger than me or is himself a wrestler, he's not likely to beat my 6k3 + 5 to break free.)

Black Jack Rackham wrote:
Steven desJardins wrote:Breaking out of a grappling hold involves a contested roll of Brawn + Wrestling vs. Brawn + Wrestling. I understand how you combine traits and knacks, but not how you would combine a trait and a skill, since skills don't have numeric values.

Its far easier to figure out when you remember all the errors that managed to hide from the Proofreaders. ;)
Just change Wrestling to Grapple and voila.


I figured it was probably a simple error like that, but I figured I'd better make sure there wasn't a whole section of the rules I'd somehow missed.

One more question: A successful headbutt inflicts 3k1 on my opponent and 1k1 on myself, adding my brawn to both. So does this mean, with a brawn of three, I roll four dice for self-inflicted damage and keep the lowest? (I'm pretty sure that's right, just want to double-check.)
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:00 am

Steven desJardins wrote:
Black Jack Rackham wrote:So the answer to whether you have to disarm them first is a matter of how much you want them to be able to hurt you once you've gotten them in your grip. As for a penalty, nope there isn't one, just the realization that, depending on circumstances, they may be able to put significant holes in you with their pointy weapons.


That doesn't seem quite right. The Player's Guide says "While grappled, your opponent can only attempt to break your hold, Head Butt you, or perform an Action which requires very little motion, such as pulling the trigger on a pistol." So it seems like it wouldn't matter whether a swordsman was disarmed or not once I have him grappled--he wouldn't be able to attack with his sword until he broke free. (And unless he's a lot stronger than me or is himself a wrestler, he's not likely to beat my 6k3 + 5 to break free.)


Right, my "depending on circumstances" was a reference to a small bladed weapon like dagger. I know it doesn't say anything specific about it, but depending on circumstances I might let it happen (because I'm just evil that way ;) )

Steven desJardins wrote:One more question: A successful headbutt inflicts 3k1 on my opponent and 1k1 on myself, adding my brawn to both. So does this mean, with a brawn of three, I roll four dice for self-inflicted damage and keep the lowest? (I'm pretty sure that's right, just want to double-check.)

Well there's nothing specific in the rulebook but I'd say that you need to follow the same rules for both damage checks. So if you want to keep the minimum damage for yourself, you'll need to inflict minimum damage on your opponent (since it's really the same hit).
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Steven desJardins » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:51 am

Black Jack Rackham wrote:
Steven desJardins wrote:One more question: A successful headbutt inflicts 3k1 on my opponent and 1k1 on myself, adding my brawn to both. So does this mean, with a brawn of three, I roll four dice for self-inflicted damage and keep the lowest? (I'm pretty sure that's right, just want to double-check.)

Well there's nothing specific in the rulebook but I'd say that you need to follow the same rules for both damage checks. So if you want to keep the minimum damage for yourself, you'll need to inflict minimum damage on your opponent (since it's really the same hit).


On page 179, it says, "Whenever you need to determine the outcome of an action, you roll a number of dice, but only count a few of them. These are the dice that you Keep. Generally, you will want to Keep your highest die rolls." And then in the following example, it says the player "decides" to keep the highest dice. So it seems like the rule is that you can choose the highest dice, or the lowest dice, or the ones in the middle if that's what you want: it's just that, in practice, there aren't many situations where you want anything other than the highest roll. Rolling for damage against yourself seems like one of those rare situations.

And it does seem reasonable to me that as your wrestling improves, you get better at damaging your opponent without hurting yourself as much. A wrestling move where I have a 40% chance to take more damage than my opponent (4k1 vs. 6k1) seems pretty useless, but a move where I inflict a big die of damage at the cost of taking a small die is one that's worth using.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby salamanca » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:01 pm

I have always ruled it as player choice on both damage rolls for headbutt.

yeah, odds are good you only take a couple damage but on that rare chance that you roll all exploding dice... well that is gonna leave you reeling like it should.

and as you get stronger, it balances that with more dice, you have a better chance of one die being low so it sort of covers being tough enough to take it.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Steven desJardins » Wed May 06, 2015 10:24 pm

Now a question about equipment.

According to the Ussuran Wrestler template, I start with one set of poor clothes, a poor ax, and 10G.

I'd like my character to have plain but durable clothing, a silk vest embroidered with Ussuran designs, decent boots, and a knife.

First question: What's a reasonable price for the silk vest? According to the equipment list, cotton gloves are 10c, silk gloves 2g+; a plain suit is 1g, a silk suit 4g+; and a plain vest is 40c. Extrapolating, I'd say maybe 3g for the silk vest, but I don't want to put it down on my character sheet without GM approval.

Second question: I'm not going to have enough money to get all the other items right away. (A knife is 6g, a plain suit 1g, plain boots 2g. Assuming 3g for the vest, I'm 2g over and have to drop the boots.) Is there any difference in practical terms between poor clothing/weapons and the stuff you buy off the equipment list?

Third question: According to the template, my income is 0g/month. What are my options for getting more money over the course of play, and improving my clothing/equipment?
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby kenderleech » Thu May 07, 2015 2:11 am

On the templates, ignore the word "Poor" as regards equipment. As for Income, many of the adventures have a cash reward, and failing that, I beleive that everybody gets 1k1 guilder a month. Just dont go overboard on equipment, and it should all be good. This isnt D&D you dont need to have every single thing spelled out in advance, and it IS 7th sea, so a lot of times, you can find things conveniently nearby as needed. Unless its Really funny that something NOT be there. In which case, Improvise!
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Thu May 07, 2015 1:48 pm

Well a better description would be that Poor means Basic. Nothing special. Ken's close when he says 1d worth of Guilders but that's just starting money (and everyone always rolls a '10' so you start with the max). If you don't have a job you don't have any income other than what you get during the adventures. But never fear, the people of Altamira are quite generous when someone saves their lives.

Easiest way to do this. If you don't have any other means of support (which, I believe you don't) you get 1 suit of clothes, one weapon (of your choice) and 10G. Everything else you can adventure for!
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Steven desJardins » Thu May 07, 2015 9:38 pm

Makes sense. So I still need to pay for the fancy vest and the dagger (which is my second weapon), but I can do that out of my 10g starting funds and still have a little pocket money left. I'll probably want a couple of extra knives once I learn to use them as a thrown weapon, but aside from that I don't expect to buy anything substantial; my character isn't the prudent, frugal type, so I imagine most of his rewards will end going to buy a round of drinks.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Legauche » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:16 pm

Black Jack Rackham wrote:Scott brought up an excellent point in the Backgrounds section I think bears repeating here. The only place on the forums where what you reveal becomes public knowledge is the In Character Forum. All other places (Backgrounds, character sheets posted in The "Heroes" of Altamira, rules questions, etc.) are considered for the poster's and GM's use only.


Great! I was wondering about that; it's been holding up my posting my character sheet because there are some aspects of Legauche's life that hasn't been exposed yet.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:11 am

Yup you're safe. And great write-up by the way. Lots of dangling plot threads for me to use!
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kenderleech wrote:If the cows were not meant to be ridden, why would they be so close to the chase scenes?
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Re: Noob Character Creation Question

Postby Miguel Lopez » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:18 pm

Black Jack Rackham wrote:Oh and just as a reminder, we do use the 'synergy bonus' so if you've got overlapping skills that can help save you some points.


In the Base Handbook (p25, House Rule) it states that two skills that give the same basic knack do not give you the knack at rank 2. Is the above an older ruling or does that House Rule not apply to HoA?

Thanks.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby kenderleech » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:53 pm

stack away. if you have athlete, acrobat and pugilism, welcome to the footwork three club.
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:32 pm

Miguel Lopez wrote:In the Base Handbook (p25, House Rule) it states that two skills that give the same basic knack do not give you the knack at rank 2. Is the above an older ruling or does that House Rule not apply to HoA?


That's just a house rule for the folks that created the Base Handbook. We use it because it's a great resource, but all their House Rules don't apply to us. You can find all our House Rules on the CHARACTER CREATION page (under the Designing Your Own Character section).
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kenderleech wrote:If the cows were not meant to be ridden, why would they be so close to the chase scenes?
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Re: Heroes of Altamira Rules Clarifications

Postby Miguel Lopez » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:38 pm

Black Jack Rackham wrote:
Miguel Lopez wrote:In the Base Handbook (p25, House Rule) it states that two skills that give the same basic knack do not give you the knack at rank 2. Is the above an older ruling or does that House Rule not apply to HoA?


That's just a house rule for the folks that created the Base Handbook. We use it because it's a great resource, but all their House Rules don't apply to us. You can find all our House Rules on the CHARACTER CREATION page (under the Designing Your Own Character section).

I figured that might be the case, but the post I quoted was from a while ago so I wanted to check. I was looking at a couple of skills and there was quite a bit of overlap.
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