Combat System Change Playtest

[torchdragon]

Goals: Provide an alternate combat structure to utilize Swordsman Knacks more functionally. Level out Panache as a trait. Modify Eisen armor's effectiveness as to not be so binary.

Secondary Goals: Attempt to balance cost between skills and traits to make traits "less desirable". (abandoned, easier to remake whole system)

Core changes:

Eisen Armor: Change to flat Damage Reduction, -5 Flesh Wounds per "armor class" (untested in play test)

Passive Defense: Chosen Defense Knack * 5

Active Defense: Roll Passive Defense Knack + Wits / Keep Wits vs TN 15

Combat Action: Each combat action taken creates a mandatory Raise on each roll until the participant makes a Panache Roll. Upon making a Panache Roll, the participant's stack of Combat Action Raises is reduced to 0. Combat Actions are accrued BEFORE the action is taken.

Panache: For each rank of Panache, a character receives a number of Free Raises that may only be used to for Combat Action Raises.

Combat Sequence:

Panache Roll: Each participant rolls 1 die and subtracts their Panache rating from it. Lower numbers act first. Break ties in order of Panache then Wits then roll off. This generates the "initiative list".

Each participant will act during their order in the turn as decided by the initiative list. Each participant will default to the "do nothing / PD: Footwork" action if no other action is chosen.

Participants may choose of the following actions:

A. Do something other than attack - Perform any number of various things that are not involved in combat.

B. Attack - Make an offensive act towards another participant in combat. Attacking is performed by selecting an appropriate Knack from the character's collection and rolling against an opponent. This option counts as a Combat Action.

Attack Roll: (Attack Knack) + Finesse / Keep Finesse. Compare the value of the Attack Roll to the target's Passive Defense. If the Attack roll is greater than or equal to the Passive Defense, then the attack will land.

Active Defense Option: The target may choose to actively defend against the incoming attack. The defender rolls (PD Knack) + Wits / Keep Wits against a TN 10 to avoid the attack's effects. This option counts as an Combat Action.

Raise Options:

Raise for Damage: Each raise gives a +1k0 bonus on the damage roll if it is successful.

Raise for "Hittyness": Each raise requires the opponent to Raise on their Active Defense roll for this Attack.

After all players have taken their action or defaulted to PD: Footwork/Do Nothing, begin the loop again at making a Panache Roll and starting a new round of combat.

Swordsman Knack Mechanics Changes:

Beat: No changes. Is a Combat Action.

Bind: As per Bind for initial attack. On Opponents next action, Opponent may choose to either A: remain bound (not a Combat Action), B: Release Weapon (not a Combat Action), C: Break Bind (contested roll as per Knack, is a Combat Action). On Performer's next action, Performer may choose to either A: maintain bind (not a combat Action), B: release bind (not a combat action), C: Strengthen Bind (+1 Free Raise to Break Bind roll, is a combat action).

Corps-a-corps: No changes. Is a Combat Action.

Disarm: After an Opponent misses your Active or Passive Defense, take a Combat Action. Make contested roll Brawn + Disarm vs Brawn + Attack. Success disarms the opponent's attacking weapon. +2 Raises to control weapon after the disarm.

Double Parry: Is a Combat Action, used as Active Defense. If Active Defense roll is successful, gain +1 Combat Action Raise until next Panache Roll.

Feint: No changes, is a Combat Action.

Lunge: Is a Combat Action, may choose to add up to Panache in Unkept dice for damage. The next action targeting you gains a number of raises equal to the number of Unkept dice chosen.

Pommel Strike: Is a Combat Action. Roll Pommel Strike as attack. Damage is Brawn + 0k2. The next action targeting the Opponent gains a number of raises equal to your Brawn.

Riposte: No changes, is a Combat Action. The Active Defense and Attack are counted as a single Combat action.

Tagging: Is a Combat Action. Successful attack, either Performer gains a Drama Die or Opponent loses a drama die until end of combat. Temporary Drama dice "lost" disappear as normal, "permanent" drama dice will return after combat. Temporary Drama Dice must be removed before "permanent" drama dice.

Swordsman School Changes: (only looked at Apprentice ranks)

Aldana: May roll one additional die per Master Level in Aldana for the Panache Roll. Select one die from the dice rolled for initiative list.

Ambrosia: No changes.

Donovan: No changes.

Eisenfaust: Negate offhand penalty while using a broadsword and panzefaust. Gain a free raise that may only be used for Combat Action Raises for each Mastery Level in Eisenfaust.

Leegstra: Declare a number of Combat Actions up to your Brawn rating. For each Combat Action declared, you add an extra 1k0 to your damage roll if the attack is successful. Panache raises may be used to counter these Combat Action Raises.

Valroux: No changes.

Other aspects of combat such as receiving wounds, wound tests, etc were not changed. (Or if they were they off the cuff changes that didn't make it into my notes).

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So what was learned...

Initially, there was no limit on the actions you could take, and you could take an additional action every 5 "ticks" based on initiative number. This quickly got out of hand and essentially modeled several rounds of combat in a single round with lots of messy book keeping and math. So, we moved to only taking a single "action" per round.

Initially, the TN for the Active Defense Base TN was 10. This was too low and was far too frequently hit even if a character was facing multiple opponents.

Raising for damage was no longer a "go to" action. With the static base to defend against an attack, over committing on damage allowed for a viable defense. Raising for "hittyness" was a serious consideration on most rolls depending on how "deep in the weeds" the target was at the time.

The viability of all of the swordsman knacks immediately became much higher and being in a swordsman school now had the ability to present a much greater threat than simply stacking Trait/Weapon Skills.

Unfortunately, this play test was run roughly a year ago and I've since forgotten lots of minutia from the evening. However, I remember being pleased by the overall success of the changes despite some of the complications that emerged.

Thoughts and criticisms are greatly appreciated and if any of you decide to experiment with how it runs I would absolutely love to know how it turned out. If you have any questions or see any glaring holes that I missed in the rules changes, please let me know.

[Sister Sonya]

There have been lots of attempts to redo parts of 7th Sea. If a set of House Rules works for a game group, great! Otherwise, I see no reason for any changes.

A place to discuss what-ifs is Revenants: http://forum1.aimoo.com/Revenants7thSea

or Alderac/7th Sea http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewforum. ... 159e1910dc

[salamanca]

I see nothing in this at first glance that appeals to me in terms of running a combat. It removes the advantage of a high panache charaacter gaining actions, it bogs players into a "I go, then you go" style, amassing penalties based on taking actions also sounds about as entertaining as playing Rolemaster. If it works for you and yours, that's peachy. If anybody else sees something in this that I am not, even cooler. But for my money, it looks like extra bookeeping and lowered resistance to being wounded with no benefits for creative pactivity.

[torchdragon]

There have been lots of attempts to redo parts of 7th Sea. If a set of House Rules works for a game group, great! Otherwise, I see no reason for any changes.

From the other discussion thread, Black Jack Rackham had noted an interest in seeing the changes that I used for the play test and I said I would post them.

It removes the advantage of a high panache charaacter gaining actions,

Yes it does. I was not happy with the plateaus created by Panache in the combat system.

it bogs players into a "I go, then you go" style,

How is this actually different from rolling Panache dice and creating an initiative order list?

But for my money, it looks like extra bookeeping and lowered resistance to being wounded with no benefits for creative pactivity.

The first iteration mentioned had tremendous book keeping issues that were hot fixed in the first 10 minutes of testing. The idea of the scaling "soft cap" on actions got entirely out of hand. The decision to move it back to a "single" action base was made for simplicity's sake at the time. Looking at it in hindsight it also beefs up Riposte and Disarm quite a bit.

For the "creative pactivity" comment, I don't know if that's a typo or a word usage I don't understand. And adjusting the TN for the Active Defense was something I knew was going to require play testing and balancing based on threat. The idea was to unhinge the option of defense from the opponent's die rolling. If your opponent rolls well, you're being denied the option to choose an Active Defense and within our group, that always felt sour. A choice to be hit or lose an action and be hit anyway isn't really a choice.

[Sister Sonya]

Several veteran 7th Sea personalities have been proposing a second edition of the Rules for years. Typical are posts in the two sites for which I listed the URL.

After years worth of proposals, my eyes just glaze over. Sorry, it's not personal.