My Assessment of The Burning Wheel RPG

[Black Jack Rackham]

So kiddos, Eric, Jen, and I played Mouse Guard today (which uses a modified version of Burning Wheel). It is a system that promotes having players work together (since it's nearly impossible to defeat most things the mice deal with 1:1) and interestingly, the exact same mechanic that is used to deal with combat also deals with conversations, chases, finding shelter, etc. In fact, every single conflict uses the same mechanic. It goes like this, determine Disposition (which is, essentially hit points, they vary depending on the person in charge and the type of conflict going on) then you (and anyone else teaming up with you) determine (without telling the GM) the 3 actions you are allowed per round (you can do one of four things, Attack, Defend, Feint, or Maneuver*). The GM does the same. Once you're finished, you both reveal your order and consult a matrix which tells you how to resolve the 16 combinations of actions. Then the person 'leading' that action makes the roll and each 'team member' can add a die in to help. Anyone adding dice must then suffer the same fate as the leader once the outcome is determined.

Ideally, you want the players to give a description of what happened based on the outcome, but I'm betting that (like us) that tends to be the GMs purview.

So, having described that, it seems to me (at least initially) to be kind of a cool resolution because no matter what the action you resolve it the same way. And then, you do it over, and over, and over, and over, and finally you realize that kind of takes the fun away. ESPECIALLY when its the GM doing most of the descriptions.

And this is just the GM portion of the adventure (which takes approximately half a four-hour session), we haven't even discussed the Player portion...

So anyway, the GOOD: I like that it places an emphasis on teamwork, there are no Stats in the traditional sense (no strength, dex, con, etc. Instead its Nature, Health, Will, Resources, Circles) that the mechanics are consistent, there is a focus on mutual storytelling, and l love the setting.

the BAD: boring and repetitive mechanic (they're TOO consistent) that, more often than not, gets in the way of the storytelling (because a resolution can take 6 or more rolls to achieve).

David, of course, loved it and wants to play more, so I'm thinking of trying to use a different system (I'm thinking FUDGE, Fate, or, at Eric's suggestion, Bunnies & Burrows)

*I realize that doesn't seem to make sense, given that you can't really Attack when searching for shelter, but consider that "Attack" just means to go at the problem head on, attempting to solve it quickly. Then "Defend" becomes something like, look at your surroundings and gather information, etc.

[Rebecca Iavelli]

I read the above. I was totally confused with it. I read it again, and sort of got something out of it. Yep, it sounds boring and dull, and way way drawn out to figure out how to do something, just from how you described it.

[Black Jack Rackham]

If you're desperate to understand I can show you an example tomorrow, but I doubt I will be running anything with The Burning Wheel anytime soon (or ever)

[spizio]

Until David asks you to. I'm sure someone will remind him if nessicary.

[Black Jack Rackham]

Nah, he doesn't care about the system, He's way more interested in the story. Actually his very first RPG adventures were stories I'd tell him when he went to bed at night (The Adventures of the Black Power Ranger David and the Pink Power Ranger Kelly (formerly the good princess Kelly with delicious earlobes)) No dice no character sheets, he'd just tell me what he wanted to do and we'd play through an adventure I made up on the spot.

[Eyeheartawk]

I have alot of the Burning Wheel stuff, as well as Mouse Guard and even Burning Empires.

I have to agree here, alot of cool ideas in here, but the game group has to buy into it hook line and sinker, or else it doesn't work.

Takes some time getting used to as well. The whole pass x checks to improve skill, but you only roll once per sequence of checks etc may be hard to get a hang of at first. I appreciate fantasy games that aren't BX or BECMI clones but I would choose something like, Castles and Crusades or Barbarians of Lemuria over it for sure.

[Rebecca Iavelli]

No need to pull the game out for me Mark. Doesn't sound like something I would be interested in. I'm so totally stuck on the roll and keep of 7th Sea, lol. I'll stick with it.

[salamanca]

Stop chewing on the children. Deliscious or not, they are not part of a healthy balanced diet. Bunnies and Burrows, have to admit that has been off my radar forever. Probably have a copy someplace. But being just mice with swords, you could probably use basic d&d stripped of magic (mostly) and converting certain types of mice to dwarf and halfling status.

[Black Jack Rackham]

So spoke with the children about which kiddos-only game they'd like me to run for them this year at TotalCon. As one voice they yelled MOUSE GUARD!!! and since I think Burning Wheel will be a disaster with a bunch of kiddos sitting at the table, I am opting for Fudge (If it fails in some way, I may splurge and get the FATE core book). Now I just have to come up with a 2-4 hour adventure (as opposed to the multi-session mini-campaign that I wrote for David).

[spizio]

The Quest for the Holy Hen-grenade. They have to save a kidnapped egg.

[Rebecca Iavelli]

You could always Monty Python it and have them have to fight the bloody mouth rabbits.

[Black Jack Rackham]

While that is awesome, Scott (and Laura), Mouse Guard is really a more serious game (dark too, actually. Lots of deaths, revenge, insurrection, etc.)

[Rebecca Iavelli]

You mean to tell me that Killer Rabid Rabbits are not "dark and deadly" enough? Weird.

[Black Jack Rackham]

Well, the Mouse Guard have a deal with a group of jackrabbits who act as 'speedy transport' for the guard. If they got rabid, Hmm. Lemme think.

[Lady Grace]

Mouse Guard is basically "Redwall" meets "Game of Thrones", right?

[Rebecca Iavelli]

It doesn't have to be rabid rabbits, I was just teasing you there, because of the picture and the Monty Python thing, but do they have to worry about rabies in Mouseguard? If so, maybe a rabid weasel or ferret, something more likely to come after them, or even a fox or two.

[Black Jack Rackham]

Mouse Guard is basically "Redwall" meets "Game of Thrones", right?

Not nearly that evil, and we do have a consistent group of heroes we see throughout the series.

[Black Jack Rackham]

Ok so I looked around for a new RPG that would work for the Mouse Guard adventure instead of Burning Wheel, and it turns out the new FATE Core System is WONDERFUL! It will plug in with minimal exchange (it's pretty obvious that Burning Wheel is, at least, inspired by FATE)

And here's something more interesting. As I read it, it also seems I could quite easily work 7th Sea into too (Not that I would, nobody panic, just that the game mechanics have the same kind of 'story telling' trumps 'dice rolls' feel to them).

[smafdi]

Either fate or the fudge system would work I think. Take a look at dresden files rpg, they are running fudge there.

[salamanca]

Generic systems make me ill. I'm gonna back out of this thread now.

[smafdi]

I lied so I must recant, Dresden uses fate which is a version of fudge. So if you like new fate then you know dresden and it works.

[Black Jack Rackham]

Yup I have both Dresden and Fate Core (they're slightly changed from one another, but more like fine tuning than actually different).

As for Generic Systems, it really depends for me. If a game has a mechanic that is just awesome and fits perfectly with the feel the genre of the adventure, then yea, I'd like to use a system built for the game (though it has some wonky bits I did like the original Deadlands mechanic using cards, it just worked). But at the same time, a terrible mechanic (as in the case of Burning Wheel trying to do Mouse Guard or my personal favorite whipping boy, CthulhuTech) I'd rather use a familiar system that works correctly and gives the feel of the genre (in my case, I like GURPs for any near-human experience kind of games, say a Recon like game or Spies; But if I were going to do a superhero or high fantasy game, I'd never even consider GURPs).

[spizio]

So when does our Dresden Files campaign start?

[Black Jack Rackham]

Heh, Well now that you mention it, Laura has been playing the, "Hey Mark, I really like the idea of an RPG based on 'X' do you think you could do something like that?"

So I have been thinking about how to do an RPG based on the movie PUSH

[smafdi]

That would be a really awesome rpg. I loved that movie, too bad I think I'm the only one in my area who did